Joe - I’m afraid you’re the one who needs to read a book, as well as return your college diploma if you ever got one. Your crude dismissal of 1200 Jewish deaths, along with the rape, sexual mutilation and kidnappings that occurred on 10/7/23 confirms your ugly anti-semitism. In a 2 year war, 70,000 Palestinians civilians are reported killed. That’s 35,000 per year of combat. In WWII, Allied aerial bombing killed 500,000 + German civilians and 400,000 Japanese civilians . 17 million Soviet civilians died from all causes over a 5 year period. WWII and the Gaza War were existential conflicts, a fight to the death. Loss of Palestinian women and children are regrettable, but Hamas and their leaders should have thought about that on Oct 6.
Pointing out the fact that Israel's accounts of October 7 were greatly and demonstrably exaggerated isn't a dismissal. Nor does that constitute antisemitism. The fact that you're throwing out the standard Israeli government conflation of antisemitism and opposition to the government of Israel tells a lot about any college diploma you might have received.
Also telling is the standard comparison of Gaza to WWII - in which, fully armed nations with air forces, navies and armies engaged in generally orthodox combat. Let me know when Hamas receives if F-35's.
The most telling aspect of your reply is in your use of the word "regrettable" to describe the deaths of 70,000 non-combatant women and children.
"How do you negotiate durable peace with an organization whose leaders have publicly promised to "repeat the October 7 attack time and again until Israel is annihilated"?
You can't, which is why there won't be peace until Hamas is defeated and there is new leadership of the Palestinians.
I am so sorry about the assault on you during the parade. I’ve thought lots about the bullies, like your assailant, who intimidate opponents into silence. Secure people are able to tolerate hearing points of view other than their own. They’re curious and intelligent and willing. I don’t believe liberals are the only ones engaged in this bullying but it sure seems like that is their primary strategy and it’s been effective. Many conservatives over the years(myself included) have been unwilling to voice their positions for fear of losing relationships (it’s happened to me-both long term family and friendships) and for fear of personal attacks to our character (name calling, accusations, etc). I admire your courage at speaking to these people as well as speaking up against them. Soak up every loving email or response you get. This is where your attention must stay focused. Feel the support. And be grateful you’re not that assailant. Remember your blessings. That’s where your strength lies.
Thank you Elisa! Your words mean a lot - this essay was actually an attempt to write about gratitude, which you’d asked for once!
And you’re right about the cost of intimidation — the relationships lost, the silence it produces (both of which I know too) and how corrosive it is to a free society. But I feel blessed for all the new friends I’ve made!
And thank you for the reminder to feel the support and stay rooted in what’s good. I will. 😘
Thank you, Melanie. Excellent article. You have become an important voice in the American debate. Both 4th of July participants clearly display their ignorance - the man embarrassingly so. Hope he had the decency to buy you a replacement pair. Any true gentleman would.
Questions to ponder around the family dining table esp. with recently graduated youngsters of these so-called elite ‚liberal‘ institutions. We send them to these colleges to fine tune their critical thinking skills; they return, indebted, brain-washed. Trade schools offer more.
Before I made an assertion like " 'What would you want your government to do after 1,200 people were raped, tortured, and massacred, and hundreds were taken hostage?'" I'd probably do some research. One might find that the above didn't happen as alleged. Facts matter. Same applies to "rejected every peace proposal." Someone needs to read a book.
“Isn’t it tragic that so many Arabs living just outside Israel don’t enjoy the same rights, opportunities, and prosperity as Arab Israelis?”Because those "rights" differ from those afforded to non-Arabs, Isael is considered an apartheid state...aside from the fact that the rights of Arabs elsewhere has nothing to do with the conduct of Israel.
“Shouldn’t we hold Hamas responsible for violating the laws of war by embedding itself among civilians?” Aside from the fact that Israel places it's own military and intelligence facilities in civilian areas...perhaps one might be able to explain to me how an occupied people is able to place it's own resisting force anywhere else when they are locked into the Gaza strip.
I can't help but suspect that this piece is an intentional piece of Hasbara/propaganda. It's completely uninformed or intentionally wrong, from a person seemingly capable of getting it right. It makes one wonder how someone could presumably note the deaths of 73,000 non-combatants and come away with this "opinion."
Joe, when a comment’s strongest move is to deny easily confirmed facts — the mass rape, torture, and murder of civilians on October 7, the taking of hostages, and the extensive documentation of those crimes — it is not a serious contribution.
You’re entitled to your views. This is still a free country in which we are supposed to hash out differences with evidence and reason. That was the central point of my essay.
What you are not entitled to is having denial treated as a valid starting point. Respect in public argument is earned by engaging reality, not by erasing it.
Of course you're content to leave it there. Ignoring my "easily confirmed facts" about genocide (73,000 deaths to date), apartheid and Palestinian "rights" and then preaching about the rules of serious public debate is a joke.
And exactly which "facts" did I deny? I stated, "Before I made an assertion like 'What would you want your government to do after 1,200 people were raped, tortured, and massacred, and hundreds were taken hostage?' I'd probably do some research. One might find that the above didn't happen as alleged" (emphasis on "as alleged").
It's common knowledge amongst those of us closely following the situation in Palestine that the initial assertions made about October 7, 2023 were greatly exaggerated and made with little to no evidence. This is particularly true regarding accusations of rape and torture. The Internet is replete with sources that address this. Let me give you some help in this regard:
Admittedly, I do find your asserted concern for murder, sexual assault and torture victims encouraging. Any comments on the thousands upon thousands of Palestinian murder, sexual assault and torture victims in Gaza, the West Bank and Israeli prisons over the last several decades? Or the fact that Israel is an occupying force in violation of international law? Or the fact that Palestine has the right of self-determination?
Cara has already addressed your factual claims with current evidence and primary sources, so I won't repeat her work.
I'll just note that my essay wasn't primarily about Israel—it was about how stories, repeated often enough, harden into moral certainties that resist contrary evidence, and what that does to our ability to govern ourselves together.
That's why it's built around questions rather than assertions: a free society depends on citizens willing to examine their own premises, not only everyone else's.
You began your comment by saying, "Facts matter." I agree. In your replies, you've questioned extensive documentation of October 7 while relying on a two-year-old Al Jazeera article to support your conclusion.
If facts matter, shouldn't skepticism require weighing the strongest available evidence—including evidence that challenges our preferred conclusions?
I'll take your failure to address the facts that I presumably denied to be a concession that I, in fact, did not deny any facts. I'll also take your failure to address the exponentially higher number of sexual assaults, torture and murder suffered by Palestinians at the hands of the IDF and illegal settlers to mean that only the horrors of such acts committed against Israelis matters to you.
Your article is a perfect example of how "stories, repeated often enough, harden into moral certainties that resist contrary evidence." You produced Fox news talking points about Palestine completely void of relevant history or context. One side is comprised of "terrorists" who have "rejected every peace proposal" and the other side is comprised of victims. When I offer one of many sources that addresses a counter narrative, you reply by stating that the article is 2 years old. Rather than consider the potential accuracy of the article or the fact that forensic analysis demonstrated that Israel misrepresented October 7 (my actual "conclusion"), you feel compelled to attack what evidence the article presents.
I completely understand why you're ducking matters of self-determination, genocide, apartheid and international law but is there some reason that the embellished crimes of Hamas need to be embellished? Was that a day of angels and devils devoid of nuance?
You replied to me rather than engaging Cara's response, even though she addressed your factual claims directly with current evidence and primary sources—the 2025 UN Commission of Inquiry, the Civil Commission's two-year investigation, and John Spencer's analysis of the combatant-to-civilian ratio in Gaza. None of those sources appears in your reply.
You continue to characterize the atrocities of October 7 as "embellished." Yet the record now includes Hamas's own body-camera footage, survivor testimony, forensic evidence, the UN Commission's findings, and the Civil Commission's review of more than 1,800 hours of video and 430 eyewitness testimonies. If you believe those investigations reached the wrong conclusions, which specific findings do you dispute, and what evidence leads you to that conclusion?
You've also claimed an "exponentially higher" number of sexual assaults, torture, and murders committed against Palestinians by the IDF and settlers than Hamas committed on October 7. What's the evidence for that assertion? Given the seriousness of that claim, I'd expect it to rest on more than repetition.
You also suggest I don't care about Palestinian suffering after criticizing my observation that it's a tragedy so many Arabs living just outside Israel are denied the rights, opportunities, and prosperity enjoyed by Arab Israelis. That raises a question: how do you reconcile the claim that Israel is an apartheid state with the fact that roughly 20% of its citizens are Arab citizens who vote, serve in the Knesset, sit on the Supreme Court, and enjoy equal legal rights under Israeli law?
The question isn't whether Palestinians deserve peace, dignity, and self-determination. They do. The question is how those goals become possible while Hamas continues to reject Israel's right to exist.
Hamas leader Ghazi Hamad said after October 7 that the group would "repeat the October 7 attack time and again until Israel is annihilated." How do you make peace with an organization whose leadership states its objective that plainly?
I want peace, and trust you do too. That's why I keep coming back to this thought experiment:
What would happen if Israel laid down its arms tomorrow? And what would happen if Hamas laid down theirs?
If those answers are fundamentally different, that difference tells us something essential about the conflict—and about what will be required to end it.
"What would happen if Israel laid down its arms tomorrow? And what would happen if Hamas laid down theirs?"
We all know what would happen, which is why the people singling out Israel for criticism, and holding them to a higher standard than any other country in the Middle East, are dishonest....and worse.
Joe Morgan, In response to your arguments, it's worth separating what's genuinely disputed from what isn't:
On October 7th: your "as alleged" framing doesn't hold up against the well-documented record, nor does your one source. The Al Jazeera investigation you linked is from March 2024, and it disputes specific early claims (like the "40 beheaded babies" story) and states there was "insufficient evidence" at that time to call the sexual violence "widespread and systematic," while still concluding isolated rapes occurred.
Since then, two far more extensive investigations have been completed: a 2025 UN Human Rights Council Independent Commission of Inquiry — a body not known for sympathy toward Israel — which confirmed acts of sexual violence at multiple specific sites using physical evidence and forensic review, and a two-year Civil Commission investigation drawing on 430+ testimonies and over 1,800 hours of video analysis, reaching similar conclusions.
What's documented is grim enough without needing embellishment: Hamas killed more than 1,200 people, including 46 Americans, and took roughly 250 hostages, among them young children. The youngest, Kfir Bibas, was nine months old when he was taken; his body was returned more than a year later. That record stands on its own.
On the death toll: this is genuinely disputed among serious people. Credible military analysts, including West Point's John Spencer, put the combatant-to-civilian ratio in Gaza at close to 1:1 — a historically low rate for urban warfare.
It is important to note that it is hard to distinguish between a combatant and a youth considering that Hamas has run youth training camps for years, and its social infrastructure supports the families of those killed as "martyrs." This fact blurs the line between "civilian" and "combatant" in ways a simple death count can't capture.
What is hard to refute is that Gaza's population has suffered a real and severe wartime toll — a tragedy that would not have happened if Hamas had not savagely attacked Israel on October 7th and if Hamas did not fight from within civilian areas rather than protect the people it claims to represent.
On apartheid: roughly one-fifth of Israeli citizens are Arab, with representation in the Knesset and on the Supreme Court. This doesn't settle every grievance that could be raised, as is normal in a democracy, but how can you square these facts with the term "apartheid" as it is conventionally defined?
I'm not going to relitigate the history of the conflict here. What's actually knowable is what's documented in the present. I've tried to stick to that.
My "as alleged" framing (that Israel misrepresented the extent of crimes committed by Hamas) holds up perfectly, as indicated by your own comment regarding "40 beheaded babies.” Israel did in fact lie about that and many other things.
On the subject of sources: You didn’t link to a 2025 UN Commission of Inquiry.
Instead, you linked an Atlantic Counsil article titled “Unpacking the UN findings of war crimes by Hamas and Israel since October 7” which is four months newer than the article I posted. The Atlantic Counsil receives funding from civil-rights-challenged countries such as Qatar and the United Arab Emirates and defense industry giants such as Northrop Grumman, Lockheed Martin and Raytheon and Northrop Grumman. They never met a war they didn’t like…particularly one supported by the west.
You also linked to the “The Civil Commission on October 7th Crimes by Hamas Against Women and Children” – one of the most inherently unobjective titles ever bestowed upon an entity presumably engaged in investigation. That laughable institution still features board member and Zionist Sheryl Sandberg, creator of the now largely debunked “Silence Before Screams.”
While I concede – and never denied - that Hamas committed sexual assaults and murders on October 7, 2023 (I pointed out that Israel misrepresented the extent of it) and you have a legitimate basis to say so, I have to advise you to steer clear of the above as a “source.” Folks on both sides of this issue recognize that “The Commission” is a joke.
You also linked the 2025 “Israel Is Not Committing Genocide: Exposing the Distortion of Law and Truth,” a disgusting article written by war crime apologists and lawfare practitioners John Spencer and Arsen Ostrovsky. Are we really going to engage in a pedantic game of argument over what constitutes “genocide?” Is that the desperation of your position? Standing before the graves of 73,000 non-combatant women and children, you want to dispute whether a legally defined “genocide” has occurred? Of course you do. Just as you want to push narratives on combatant-to-civilian death ratios, the difficulties in distinguishing between youths and members of Hamas and how Palestinian social infrastructure supports the families of those killed as martyrs. None of this excuses or explains sniper bullets through 3-year-olds, double tap strikes on hospitals and schools or bombs dropped on refugee camps. The icing is your victim blaming of a captive and colonized population that you resent because it resents and resists its illegal occupier.
Arab members of the Knesset – like all Arabs in Israel – have different rights and powers than Jewish citizens. That’s essentially apartheid. But if you think that the Arab members of the Knesset have any significant authority, I have a bridge to sell you. You could determine the facts of this matter in 5 minutes on the Internet….if you actually sought truth.
You’re not going to “relitigate the history of the conflict here” because it’s comprised of civil rights violations, illegal settlement, mass murder, mass removals and violations of international law, illegal detentions, torture and sexual assaults, some going back as far as the 1800’s.
You strike me as someone who would calmly watch eight rounds of a boxing match in which your fighter cheats against a smaller opponent and then lose your mind when the opponent throws a groin punch (October 7).
Cara responded to your factual claims with current evidence and primary sources. Rather than engaging those findings, your reply challenges the institutions, the authors, and their funding, while introducing new allegations. Readers can judge for themselves which approach is more persuasive.
I'll note one thing plainly: you now concede that Hamas committed sexual assaults and murders on October 7th — the very thing your first comment on this piece called into question with the words "as alleged."
What struck me most in my July 4 conversation—and what still strikes me here—is that lasting peace depends on whether both sides accept the other's right to exist. Palestinians deserve peace, dignity, and the chance to flourish. So do Israelis.
The question that remains is this: How do you negotiate durable peace with an organization whose leaders have publicly promised to "repeat the October 7 attack time and again until Israel is annihilated"?
Until that question has a credible answer, lasting peace remains out of reach. Moreover, my essay's central argument was that citizens have to be willing to test their convictions against evidence outside their own silo. You've had every chance to do that here, and chosen not to. Again, readers can judge...
Joe I’m always struck by the FACT that while the Jews are great at so many things, medicine, music, maths, engineering, entrepreneurship etc they are not even mediocre at Genocide. They are useless at it. If they were any good at Genocide they should have killed at least 100,000s of people in Gaza. They have the capability to that in a few afternoons but have not done so. Now the Nazis who gave the world the very definition of genocide… they had millions of dead Jews ,that’s genocide.
Seriously why did the Israelis kill so few if Genocide was their aim?
Joe - I’m afraid you’re the one who needs to read a book, as well as return your college diploma if you ever got one. Your crude dismissal of 1200 Jewish deaths, along with the rape, sexual mutilation and kidnappings that occurred on 10/7/23 confirms your ugly anti-semitism. In a 2 year war, 70,000 Palestinians civilians are reported killed. That’s 35,000 per year of combat. In WWII, Allied aerial bombing killed 500,000 + German civilians and 400,000 Japanese civilians . 17 million Soviet civilians died from all causes over a 5 year period. WWII and the Gaza War were existential conflicts, a fight to the death. Loss of Palestinian women and children are regrettable, but Hamas and their leaders should have thought about that on Oct 6.
Pointing out the fact that Israel's accounts of October 7 were greatly and demonstrably exaggerated isn't a dismissal. Nor does that constitute antisemitism. The fact that you're throwing out the standard Israeli government conflation of antisemitism and opposition to the government of Israel tells a lot about any college diploma you might have received.
Also telling is the standard comparison of Gaza to WWII - in which, fully armed nations with air forces, navies and armies engaged in generally orthodox combat. Let me know when Hamas receives if F-35's.
The most telling aspect of your reply is in your use of the word "regrettable" to describe the deaths of 70,000 non-combatant women and children.
Joe - did you have the decency to buy Melanie a new pair of sunglasses? Any gentleman would have!
"How do you negotiate durable peace with an organization whose leaders have publicly promised to "repeat the October 7 attack time and again until Israel is annihilated"?
You can't, which is why there won't be peace until Hamas is defeated and there is new leadership of the Palestinians.
I am so sorry about the assault on you during the parade. I’ve thought lots about the bullies, like your assailant, who intimidate opponents into silence. Secure people are able to tolerate hearing points of view other than their own. They’re curious and intelligent and willing. I don’t believe liberals are the only ones engaged in this bullying but it sure seems like that is their primary strategy and it’s been effective. Many conservatives over the years(myself included) have been unwilling to voice their positions for fear of losing relationships (it’s happened to me-both long term family and friendships) and for fear of personal attacks to our character (name calling, accusations, etc). I admire your courage at speaking to these people as well as speaking up against them. Soak up every loving email or response you get. This is where your attention must stay focused. Feel the support. And be grateful you’re not that assailant. Remember your blessings. That’s where your strength lies.
Thank you Elisa! Your words mean a lot - this essay was actually an attempt to write about gratitude, which you’d asked for once!
And you’re right about the cost of intimidation — the relationships lost, the silence it produces (both of which I know too) and how corrosive it is to a free society. But I feel blessed for all the new friends I’ve made!
And thank you for the reminder to feel the support and stay rooted in what’s good. I will. 😘
excellent column! but i still found Soccer boring...haha.
yes, but the test for you is, do you like watching any sport! Ha!
Thank you, Melanie. Excellent article. You have become an important voice in the American debate. Both 4th of July participants clearly display their ignorance - the man embarrassingly so. Hope he had the decency to buy you a replacement pair. Any true gentleman would.
Questions to ponder around the family dining table esp. with recently graduated youngsters of these so-called elite ‚liberal‘ institutions. We send them to these colleges to fine tune their critical thinking skills; they return, indebted, brain-washed. Trade schools offer more.
Before I made an assertion like " 'What would you want your government to do after 1,200 people were raped, tortured, and massacred, and hundreds were taken hostage?'" I'd probably do some research. One might find that the above didn't happen as alleged. Facts matter. Same applies to "rejected every peace proposal." Someone needs to read a book.
“Isn’t it tragic that so many Arabs living just outside Israel don’t enjoy the same rights, opportunities, and prosperity as Arab Israelis?”Because those "rights" differ from those afforded to non-Arabs, Isael is considered an apartheid state...aside from the fact that the rights of Arabs elsewhere has nothing to do with the conduct of Israel.
“Shouldn’t we hold Hamas responsible for violating the laws of war by embedding itself among civilians?” Aside from the fact that Israel places it's own military and intelligence facilities in civilian areas...perhaps one might be able to explain to me how an occupied people is able to place it's own resisting force anywhere else when they are locked into the Gaza strip.
I can't help but suspect that this piece is an intentional piece of Hasbara/propaganda. It's completely uninformed or intentionally wrong, from a person seemingly capable of getting it right. It makes one wonder how someone could presumably note the deaths of 73,000 non-combatants and come away with this "opinion."
Joe, when a comment’s strongest move is to deny easily confirmed facts — the mass rape, torture, and murder of civilians on October 7, the taking of hostages, and the extensive documentation of those crimes — it is not a serious contribution.
You’re entitled to your views. This is still a free country in which we are supposed to hash out differences with evidence and reason. That was the central point of my essay.
What you are not entitled to is having denial treated as a valid starting point. Respect in public argument is earned by engaging reality, not by erasing it.
I’m content to leave it there.
Of course you're content to leave it there. Ignoring my "easily confirmed facts" about genocide (73,000 deaths to date), apartheid and Palestinian "rights" and then preaching about the rules of serious public debate is a joke.
And exactly which "facts" did I deny? I stated, "Before I made an assertion like 'What would you want your government to do after 1,200 people were raped, tortured, and massacred, and hundreds were taken hostage?' I'd probably do some research. One might find that the above didn't happen as alleged" (emphasis on "as alleged").
It's common knowledge amongst those of us closely following the situation in Palestine that the initial assertions made about October 7, 2023 were greatly exaggerated and made with little to no evidence. This is particularly true regarding accusations of rape and torture. The Internet is replete with sources that address this. Let me give you some help in this regard:
"October 7: Forensic analysis shows Hamas abuses, many false Israeli claims"
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/21/october-7-forensic-analysis-shows-hamas-abuses-many-false-israeli-claims
Aljazeera - 21 Mar 2024
Admittedly, I do find your asserted concern for murder, sexual assault and torture victims encouraging. Any comments on the thousands upon thousands of Palestinian murder, sexual assault and torture victims in Gaza, the West Bank and Israeli prisons over the last several decades? Or the fact that Israel is an occupying force in violation of international law? Or the fact that Palestine has the right of self-determination?
Joe,
Cara has already addressed your factual claims with current evidence and primary sources, so I won't repeat her work.
I'll just note that my essay wasn't primarily about Israel—it was about how stories, repeated often enough, harden into moral certainties that resist contrary evidence, and what that does to our ability to govern ourselves together.
That's why it's built around questions rather than assertions: a free society depends on citizens willing to examine their own premises, not only everyone else's.
You began your comment by saying, "Facts matter." I agree. In your replies, you've questioned extensive documentation of October 7 while relying on a two-year-old Al Jazeera article to support your conclusion.
If facts matter, shouldn't skepticism require weighing the strongest available evidence—including evidence that challenges our preferred conclusions?
I'll take your failure to address the facts that I presumably denied to be a concession that I, in fact, did not deny any facts. I'll also take your failure to address the exponentially higher number of sexual assaults, torture and murder suffered by Palestinians at the hands of the IDF and illegal settlers to mean that only the horrors of such acts committed against Israelis matters to you.
Your article is a perfect example of how "stories, repeated often enough, harden into moral certainties that resist contrary evidence." You produced Fox news talking points about Palestine completely void of relevant history or context. One side is comprised of "terrorists" who have "rejected every peace proposal" and the other side is comprised of victims. When I offer one of many sources that addresses a counter narrative, you reply by stating that the article is 2 years old. Rather than consider the potential accuracy of the article or the fact that forensic analysis demonstrated that Israel misrepresented October 7 (my actual "conclusion"), you feel compelled to attack what evidence the article presents.
I completely understand why you're ducking matters of self-determination, genocide, apartheid and international law but is there some reason that the embellished crimes of Hamas need to be embellished? Was that a day of angels and devils devoid of nuance?
Joe,
You replied to me rather than engaging Cara's response, even though she addressed your factual claims directly with current evidence and primary sources—the 2025 UN Commission of Inquiry, the Civil Commission's two-year investigation, and John Spencer's analysis of the combatant-to-civilian ratio in Gaza. None of those sources appears in your reply.
You continue to characterize the atrocities of October 7 as "embellished." Yet the record now includes Hamas's own body-camera footage, survivor testimony, forensic evidence, the UN Commission's findings, and the Civil Commission's review of more than 1,800 hours of video and 430 eyewitness testimonies. If you believe those investigations reached the wrong conclusions, which specific findings do you dispute, and what evidence leads you to that conclusion?
You've also claimed an "exponentially higher" number of sexual assaults, torture, and murders committed against Palestinians by the IDF and settlers than Hamas committed on October 7. What's the evidence for that assertion? Given the seriousness of that claim, I'd expect it to rest on more than repetition.
You also suggest I don't care about Palestinian suffering after criticizing my observation that it's a tragedy so many Arabs living just outside Israel are denied the rights, opportunities, and prosperity enjoyed by Arab Israelis. That raises a question: how do you reconcile the claim that Israel is an apartheid state with the fact that roughly 20% of its citizens are Arab citizens who vote, serve in the Knesset, sit on the Supreme Court, and enjoy equal legal rights under Israeli law?
The question isn't whether Palestinians deserve peace, dignity, and self-determination. They do. The question is how those goals become possible while Hamas continues to reject Israel's right to exist.
Hamas leader Ghazi Hamad said after October 7 that the group would "repeat the October 7 attack time and again until Israel is annihilated." How do you make peace with an organization whose leadership states its objective that plainly?
I want peace, and trust you do too. That's why I keep coming back to this thought experiment:
What would happen if Israel laid down its arms tomorrow? And what would happen if Hamas laid down theirs?
If those answers are fundamentally different, that difference tells us something essential about the conflict—and about what will be required to end it.
"What would happen if Israel laid down its arms tomorrow? And what would happen if Hamas laid down theirs?"
We all know what would happen, which is why the people singling out Israel for criticism, and holding them to a higher standard than any other country in the Middle East, are dishonest....and worse.
Joe Morgan, In response to your arguments, it's worth separating what's genuinely disputed from what isn't:
On October 7th: your "as alleged" framing doesn't hold up against the well-documented record, nor does your one source. The Al Jazeera investigation you linked is from March 2024, and it disputes specific early claims (like the "40 beheaded babies" story) and states there was "insufficient evidence" at that time to call the sexual violence "widespread and systematic," while still concluding isolated rapes occurred.
Since then, two far more extensive investigations have been completed: a 2025 UN Human Rights Council Independent Commission of Inquiry — a body not known for sympathy toward Israel — which confirmed acts of sexual violence at multiple specific sites using physical evidence and forensic review, and a two-year Civil Commission investigation drawing on 430+ testimonies and over 1,800 hours of video analysis, reaching similar conclusions.
What's documented is grim enough without needing embellishment: Hamas killed more than 1,200 people, including 46 Americans, and took roughly 250 hostages, among them young children. The youngest, Kfir Bibas, was nine months old when he was taken; his body was returned more than a year later. That record stands on its own.
On the death toll: this is genuinely disputed among serious people. Credible military analysts, including West Point's John Spencer, put the combatant-to-civilian ratio in Gaza at close to 1:1 — a historically low rate for urban warfare.
It is important to note that it is hard to distinguish between a combatant and a youth considering that Hamas has run youth training camps for years, and its social infrastructure supports the families of those killed as "martyrs." This fact blurs the line between "civilian" and "combatant" in ways a simple death count can't capture.
What is hard to refute is that Gaza's population has suffered a real and severe wartime toll — a tragedy that would not have happened if Hamas had not savagely attacked Israel on October 7th and if Hamas did not fight from within civilian areas rather than protect the people it claims to represent.
On apartheid: roughly one-fifth of Israeli citizens are Arab, with representation in the Knesset and on the Supreme Court. This doesn't settle every grievance that could be raised, as is normal in a democracy, but how can you square these facts with the term "apartheid" as it is conventionally defined?
I'm not going to relitigate the history of the conflict here. What's actually knowable is what's documented in the present. I've tried to stick to that.
Sources:
2025 UN Commission of Inquiry findings: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/coi-war-crimes-hamas-israel-october-7-gaza-hostages/
May 2026 Civil Commission investigation: https://www.civilc.org/silenced-no-more/executive-summary
Sept 2025, John Spencer's analysis: "Israel Is Not Committing Genocide: Exposing the Distortion of Law and Truth"
https://spencerguard.substack.com/p/israel-is-not-committing-genocide
Bravo Cara!
My "as alleged" framing (that Israel misrepresented the extent of crimes committed by Hamas) holds up perfectly, as indicated by your own comment regarding "40 beheaded babies.” Israel did in fact lie about that and many other things.
On the subject of sources: You didn’t link to a 2025 UN Commission of Inquiry.
Instead, you linked an Atlantic Counsil article titled “Unpacking the UN findings of war crimes by Hamas and Israel since October 7” which is four months newer than the article I posted. The Atlantic Counsil receives funding from civil-rights-challenged countries such as Qatar and the United Arab Emirates and defense industry giants such as Northrop Grumman, Lockheed Martin and Raytheon and Northrop Grumman. They never met a war they didn’t like…particularly one supported by the west.
You also linked to the “The Civil Commission on October 7th Crimes by Hamas Against Women and Children” – one of the most inherently unobjective titles ever bestowed upon an entity presumably engaged in investigation. That laughable institution still features board member and Zionist Sheryl Sandberg, creator of the now largely debunked “Silence Before Screams.”
https://thegrayzone.com/2025/04/08/oct-7-hoax-expose-shelved/
https://electronicintifada.net/content/israeli-commission-7-october-rape-claims-exposed-fraud/45401
While I concede – and never denied - that Hamas committed sexual assaults and murders on October 7, 2023 (I pointed out that Israel misrepresented the extent of it) and you have a legitimate basis to say so, I have to advise you to steer clear of the above as a “source.” Folks on both sides of this issue recognize that “The Commission” is a joke.
You also linked the 2025 “Israel Is Not Committing Genocide: Exposing the Distortion of Law and Truth,” a disgusting article written by war crime apologists and lawfare practitioners John Spencer and Arsen Ostrovsky. Are we really going to engage in a pedantic game of argument over what constitutes “genocide?” Is that the desperation of your position? Standing before the graves of 73,000 non-combatant women and children, you want to dispute whether a legally defined “genocide” has occurred? Of course you do. Just as you want to push narratives on combatant-to-civilian death ratios, the difficulties in distinguishing between youths and members of Hamas and how Palestinian social infrastructure supports the families of those killed as martyrs. None of this excuses or explains sniper bullets through 3-year-olds, double tap strikes on hospitals and schools or bombs dropped on refugee camps. The icing is your victim blaming of a captive and colonized population that you resent because it resents and resists its illegal occupier.
Arab members of the Knesset – like all Arabs in Israel – have different rights and powers than Jewish citizens. That’s essentially apartheid. But if you think that the Arab members of the Knesset have any significant authority, I have a bridge to sell you. You could determine the facts of this matter in 5 minutes on the Internet….if you actually sought truth.
You’re not going to “relitigate the history of the conflict here” because it’s comprised of civil rights violations, illegal settlement, mass murder, mass removals and violations of international law, illegal detentions, torture and sexual assaults, some going back as far as the 1800’s.
You strike me as someone who would calmly watch eight rounds of a boxing match in which your fighter cheats against a smaller opponent and then lose your mind when the opponent throws a groin punch (October 7).
Joe,
Cara responded to your factual claims with current evidence and primary sources. Rather than engaging those findings, your reply challenges the institutions, the authors, and their funding, while introducing new allegations. Readers can judge for themselves which approach is more persuasive.
I'll note one thing plainly: you now concede that Hamas committed sexual assaults and murders on October 7th — the very thing your first comment on this piece called into question with the words "as alleged."
What struck me most in my July 4 conversation—and what still strikes me here—is that lasting peace depends on whether both sides accept the other's right to exist. Palestinians deserve peace, dignity, and the chance to flourish. So do Israelis.
The question that remains is this: How do you negotiate durable peace with an organization whose leaders have publicly promised to "repeat the October 7 attack time and again until Israel is annihilated"?
Until that question has a credible answer, lasting peace remains out of reach. Moreover, my essay's central argument was that citizens have to be willing to test their convictions against evidence outside their own silo. You've had every chance to do that here, and chosen not to. Again, readers can judge...
Joe I’m always struck by the FACT that while the Jews are great at so many things, medicine, music, maths, engineering, entrepreneurship etc they are not even mediocre at Genocide. They are useless at it. If they were any good at Genocide they should have killed at least 100,000s of people in Gaza. They have the capability to that in a few afternoons but have not done so. Now the Nazis who gave the world the very definition of genocide… they had millions of dead Jews ,that’s genocide.
Seriously why did the Israelis kill so few if Genocide was their aim?
Such a good question!